[Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux

Tue Nov 3 23:23:14 MSK 2009

i agree with the quote of Joel Spolsky that Vadim posted .
it is the cultural difference which results in technological differences and
not the other way around .

my experience with Microsoft programmers is that they are all busyness
oriented rather than programing
and most of the time the personal treatment is highly dependent on the
organizational hierarchy ... or to cut to the
case they are simply all arrogant morons and corporate thugs

i don't have in-depth experience with linux , but things i find important is
the efficiency of
the package management , for me windows software installation and upgrades
are nightmares compared to linux
on my previous job i worked on .NET and most libraries and service packs
insisted to be installed under C: and not in another partition
and for each software installed the windows directory grew bigger and bigger
because of installers stored files

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM, <haifux-request at haifux.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Gabor Szabo)
>   2. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Shahar Dag)
>   3. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Vadim Eisenberg)
>   4. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Tal Abir)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:49:13 +0200
> From: Gabor Szabo <szabgab at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> To: Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>
> Cc: Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> Message-ID:
>        <d8a74af10911020349h46e35cf6g3bc0767b628ddf20 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> knowledge
> you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
>
> Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> Even as the developer desktops.
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all
> >>
> >> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> >
> > Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am not
> > familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> >
>
> I can give you another, similar examples.
>
> Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory structure.
> Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory structure.
> Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
>
> I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> script.
>
>
> Repeating tasks - History.
> Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> way.
>
> The Linux/Unix version might  need you to type in a 20-30 character
> long command.
> The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> to remember.
> It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
>
> BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> the windowing system you will
> have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> you have a history and
> strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
>
>
> In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> might be to direct them to the
> command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> to put them on the
> road in the direction....
>
> Some of them will arrive.
>
> Gabor
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:46:58 +0200
> From: "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> To: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>
> Message-ID: <2C33C6095C504C86BAE7E2D236223C6D at cs.technion.ac.il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>        reply-type=original
>
> Hello all
>
> everything is correct:
> some jobs are easier on Linux
> knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> Linux is free & so are most of its tools
>
> but what I am looking for is:
> a description of a simple every day job
> that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> programming to automate it.
> that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux (at
> list) as their development environment
>
> Shahar
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
>
>
> > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > knowledge
> > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> >
> > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > Even as the developer desktops.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello all
> >>>
> >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> >>
> >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am not
> >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> >>
> >
> > I can give you another, similar examples.
> >
> > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory structure.
> > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory structure.
> > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> >
> > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > script.
> >
> >
> > Repeating tasks - History.
> > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> > way.
> >
> > The Linux/Unix version might  need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > long command.
> > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> > to remember.
> > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> >
> > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > the windowing system you will
> > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > you have a history and
> > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> >
> >
> > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > might be to direct them to the
> > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> > to put them on the
> > road in the direction....
> >
> > Some of them will arrive.
> >
> > Gabor
> > _______________________________________________
> > Haifux mailing list
> > Haifux at haifux.org
> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:32:52 +0200
> From: Vadim Eisenberg <vadim.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> To: Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>, Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <c9694f700911020532w2a2ea144ma00b77fd055b3a2a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> FYI – a nice article of Joel Spolsky about the differences between Unix and
> Windows - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html .
>
>
> Some quotes from the article:
>
> *By now, Windows and Unix are functionally more similar than different.
> They
> both support the same major programming metaphors, from command lines to
> GUIs to web servers; they are organized around virtually the same panoply
> of
> system resources, from nearly identical file systems to memory to sockets
> and processes and threads. There's not much about the core set of services
> provided by each operating system to limit the kinds of applications you
> can
> create.*
>
> *What's left is cultural differences.*
>
> *...*
>
> *What are the cultural differences between Unix and Windows programmers?
> There are many details and subtleties, but for the most part it comes down
> to one thing: Unix culture values code which is useful to other
> programmers,
> while Windows culture values code which is useful to non-programmers.*
>
> *...*
>
> Regards,
>
> Vadim
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > Hello all
> >
> > everything is correct:
> > some jobs are easier on Linux
> > knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> > Linux is free & so are most of its tools
> >
> > but what I am looking for is:
> > a description of a simple every day job
> > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> > programming to automate it.
> > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux
> (at
> > list) as their development environment
> >
> > Shahar
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> >
> >
> > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > > knowledge
> > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> > >
> > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > > Even as the developer desktops.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello all
> > >>>
> > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > >>
> > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am
> not
> > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I can give you another, similar examples.
> > >
> > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> > >
> > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > > script.
> > >
> > >
> > > Repeating tasks - History.
> > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> > > way.
> > >
> > > The Linux/Unix version might  need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > > long command.
> > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> > > to remember.
> > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> > >
> > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > > the windowing system you will
> > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > > you have a history and
> > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> > >
> > >
> > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > > might be to direct them to the
> > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> > > to put them on the
> > > road in the direction....
> > >
> > > Some of them will arrive.
> > >
> > > Gabor
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Haifux mailing list
> > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Haifux mailing list
> > Haifux at haifux.org
> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:57:10 +0200
> From: Tal Abir <tal.abir at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> To: Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> Cc: Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <38b44aa0911020557r3035f7b8tbe17f1f4a0355c30 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There is no such task.
>
> Thanks,
> Tal.
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > Hello all
> >
> > everything is correct:
> > some jobs are easier on Linux
> > knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> > Linux is free & so are most of its tools
> >
> > but what I am looking for is:
> > a description of a simple every day job
> > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> > programming to automate it.
> > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux
> (at
> > list) as their development environment
> >
> > Shahar
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> >
> >
> > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > > knowledge
> > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> > >
> > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > > Even as the developer desktops.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello all
> > >>>
> > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > >>
> > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am
> not
> > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I can give you another, similar examples.
> > >
> > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> > >
> > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > > script.
> > >
> > >
> > > Repeating tasks - History.
> > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> > > way.
> > >
> > > The Linux/Unix version might  need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > > long command.
> > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> > > to remember.
> > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> > >
> > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > > the windowing system you will
> > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > > you have a history and
> > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> > >
> > >
> > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > > might be to direct them to the
> > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> > > to put them on the
> > > road in the direction....
> > >
> > > Some of them will arrive.
> > >
> > > Gabor
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Haifux mailing list
> > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Haifux mailing list
> > Haifux at haifux.org
> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> >
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