[Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
yakoub abaya
yakoub.abaya at gmail.com
Wed Nov 4 10:26:21 MSK 2009
i apologize for my generalization and personal reference to Microsoft
programmers people .
i'll refrain it to say that Microsoft is a corporate thug while the FOSS
community are cooperative individuals seeking freedom of software .
and this cultural difference is more important than the technological
competition itself .
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:23 PM, <haifux-request at haifux.org> wrote:
> Send Haifux mailing list submissions to
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Fwd: [JOB OFFER] systems researchers at IBM Research - Haifa
> (Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda)
> 2. [JOB OFFER] systems researchers at IBM Research - Haifa
> (Muli Ben-Yehuda)
> 3. Re: Welcome to Linux - Help needed (Dotan Cohen)
> 4. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (yakoub abaya)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:32:41 +0200
> From: Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Haifux] Fwd: [JOB OFFER] systems researchers at IBM Research
> - Haifa
> To: Haifa Linux Club <haifux at haifux.org>
> Message-ID:
> <7e248aab0911030832o1ea2ee7ao2071fcff7ff410d1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Muli Ben-Yehuda <muli at il.ibm.com>
> Date: Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:57 PM
> Subject: [JOB OFFER] systems researchers at IBM Research - Haifa
> To: Marc's List <linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> We have a limited number of open systems research positions at the IBM
> Research - Haifa lab[1-3]. We are looking for PhD-level[4] researchers
> and engineers, with proven hands-on experience and expertise in one or
> more of the following areas: networking, operating systems,
> virtualization, systems management, grid/cloud computing, and storage.
>
> Successful candidates should demonstrate strong background in computer
> science or computer engineering, ability to perform cutting edge R&D,
> with a focus on ability to take ideas from idea to materialization.
>
> At the lab we combine cutting edge research with advanced development,
> with a heavy dose of kernel hacking thrown in. We work on and
> contribute to many open source projects, including the Linux kernel
> and the KVM hypervisor. If you are interested, or know someone who
> might be interested, please don't hesitate to send me your CV.
>
> [1] http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/research.html
>
> [2] The systems department:
> http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/dept/stt/index.html
>
> [3] My group: http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/dept/stt/sas.html
>
> [4] If you have what it takes, lack of a PhD is not an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Muli
> --
> Muli Ben-Yehuda | muli at il.ibm.com | +972-4-8281080
> Manager, Virtualization and Systems Architecture
> Master Inventor, IBM Haifa Research Laboratory
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:50:40 +0200
> From: Muli Ben-Yehuda <muli at il.ibm.com>
> Subject: [Haifux] [JOB OFFER] systems researchers at IBM Research -
> Haifa
> To: haifux at haifux.org
> Message-ID: <20091103165040.GP7226 at il.ibm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [apologies if you've already received this on linux-il]
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> We have a limited number of open systems research positions at the IBM
> Research - Haifa lab[1-3]. We are looking for PhD-level[4] researchers
> and engineers, with proven hands-on experience and expertise in one or
> more of the following areas: networking, operating systems,
> virtualization, systems management, grid/cloud computing, and storage.
>
> Successful candidates should demonstrate strong background in computer
> science or computer engineering, ability to perform cutting edge R&D,
> with a focus on ability to take ideas from idea to materialization.
>
> At the lab we combine cutting edge research with advanced development,
> with a heavy dose of kernel hacking thrown in. We work on and
> contribute to many open source projects, including the Linux kernel
> and the KVM hypervisor. If you are interested, or know someone who
> might be interested, please don't hesitate to send me an email with a
> CV.
>
> [1] http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/research.html
>
> [2] The systems department:
> http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/dept/stt/index.html
>
> [3] My group: http://www.haifa.il.ibm.com/dept/stt/sas.html
>
> [4] If you have what it takes, lack of a PhD is not an issue.
>
> Cheers,
> Muli
> --
> Muli Ben-Yehuda | muli at il.ibm.com | +972-4-8281080
> Manager, Virtualization and Systems Architecture
> Master Inventor, IBM Haifa Research Laboratory
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:33:48 +0200
> From: Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] Welcome to Linux - Help needed
> To: Orr Dunkelman <orr.dunkelman at gmail.com>
> Cc: Amichai Rotman <amichai at iglu.org.il>, Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>
> Message-ID:
> <880dece00911030933t6c634bd4j52db86989d3f4d25 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> 2009/11/3 Orr Dunkelman <orr.dunkelman at gmail.com>:
> > Hi everybody.
> >
> > The second poster is now online.
> >
> > I've put a more noticeable note in English. Hebrew to follow (when the
> > magicians of hebrew will take care of that).
> >
>
> Do you need magicians? How can I get write access to the server? I am
> familiar with HTML.
>
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:14 +0200
> From: yakoub abaya <yakoub.abaya at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> To: haifux at haifux.org
> Message-ID:
> <421de5640911031223w6dbf729fyefe4ee8eb72c6322 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> i agree with the quote of Joel Spolsky that Vadim posted .
> it is the cultural difference which results in technological differences
> and
> not the other way around .
>
> my experience with Microsoft programmers is that they are all busyness
> oriented rather than programing
> and most of the time the personal treatment is highly dependent on the
> organizational hierarchy ... or to cut to the
> case they are simply all arrogant morons and corporate thugs
>
> i don't have in-depth experience with linux , but things i find important
> is
> the efficiency of
> the package management , for me windows software installation and upgrades
> are nightmares compared to linux
> on my previous job i worked on .NET and most libraries and service packs
> insisted to be installed under C: and not in another partition
> and for each software installed the windows directory grew bigger and
> bigger
> because of installers stored files
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM, <haifux-request at haifux.org> wrote:
>
> > Send Haifux mailing list submissions to
> > haifux at haifux.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > haifux-request at haifux.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > haifux-owner at haifux.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Haifux digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Gabor Szabo)
> > 2. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Shahar Dag)
> > 3. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Vadim Eisenberg)
> > 4. Re: advanced of programming in Linux (Tal Abir)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:49:13 +0200
> > From: Gabor Szabo <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > To: Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Message-ID:
> > <d8a74af10911020349h46e35cf6g3bc0767b628ddf20 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > knowledge
> > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> >
> > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > Even as the developer desktops.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello all
> > >>
> > >> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > >
> > > Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am not
> > > familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > >
> >
> > I can give you another, similar examples.
> >
> > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory structure.
> > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory structure.
> > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> >
> > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > script.
> >
> >
> > Repeating tasks - History.
> > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> > way.
> >
> > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > long command.
> > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> > to remember.
> > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> >
> > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > the windowing system you will
> > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > you have a history and
> > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> >
> >
> > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > might be to direct them to the
> > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> > to put them on the
> > road in the direction....
> >
> > Some of them will arrive.
> >
> > Gabor
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:46:58 +0200
> > From: "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > To: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>
> > Message-ID: <2C33C6095C504C86BAE7E2D236223C6D at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > Hello all
> >
> > everything is correct:
> > some jobs are easier on Linux
> > knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> > Linux is free & so are most of its tools
> >
> > but what I am looking for is:
> > a description of a simple every day job
> > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> > programming to automate it.
> > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux
> (at
> > list) as their development environment
> >
> > Shahar
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> >
> >
> > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > > knowledge
> > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> > >
> > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > > Even as the developer desktops.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello all
> > >>>
> > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > >>
> > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am
> not
> > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I can give you another, similar examples.
> > >
> > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory
> structure.
> > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> > >
> > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident it
> > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > > script.
> > >
> > >
> > > Repeating tasks - History.
> > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly different
> > > way.
> > >
> > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > > long command.
> > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less things
> > > to remember.
> > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> > >
> > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > > the windowing system you will
> > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > > you have a history and
> > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> > >
> > >
> > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > > might be to direct them to the
> > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even cygwin
> > > to put them on the
> > > road in the direction....
> > >
> > > Some of them will arrive.
> > >
> > > Gabor
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Haifux mailing list
> > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:32:52 +0200
> > From: Vadim Eisenberg <vadim.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > To: Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>, Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <c9694f700911020532w2a2ea144ma00b77fd055b3a2a at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > FYI – a nice article of Joel Spolsky about the differences between Unix
> and
> > Windows - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Biculturalism.html .
> >
> >
> > Some quotes from the article:
> >
> > *By now, Windows and Unix are functionally more similar than different.
> > They
> > both support the same major programming metaphors, from command lines to
> > GUIs to web servers; they are organized around virtually the same panoply
> > of
> > system resources, from nearly identical file systems to memory to sockets
> > and processes and threads. There's not much about the core set of
> services
> > provided by each operating system to limit the kinds of applications you
> > can
> > create.*
> >
> > *What's left is cultural differences.*
> >
> > *...*
> >
> > *What are the cultural differences between Unix and Windows programmers?
> > There are many details and subtleties, but for the most part it comes
> down
> > to one thing: Unix culture values code which is useful to other
> > programmers,
> > while Windows culture values code which is useful to non-programmers.*
> >
> > *...*
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Vadim
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all
> > >
> > > everything is correct:
> > > some jobs are easier on Linux
> > > knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> > > Linux is free & so are most of its tools
> > >
> > > but what I am looking for is:
> > > a description of a simple every day job
> > > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> > > programming to automate it.
> > > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> > > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> > > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux
> > (at
> > > list) as their development environment
> > >
> > > Shahar
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > >
> > >
> > > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > > > knowledge
> > > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > > > Even as the developer desktops.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > > > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hello all
> > > >>>
> > > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > > >>
> > > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am
> > not
> > > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I can give you another, similar examples.
> > > >
> > > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory
> > structure.
> > > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory
> > structure.
> > > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident
> it
> > > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > > > script.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Repeating tasks - History.
> > > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly
> different
> > > > way.
> > > >
> > > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > > > long command.
> > > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less
> things
> > > > to remember.
> > > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> > > >
> > > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > > > the windowing system you will
> > > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > > > you have a history and
> > > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > > > might be to direct them to the
> > > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even
> cygwin
> > > > to put them on the
> > > > road in the direction....
> > > >
> > > > Some of them will arrive.
> > > >
> > > > Gabor
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Haifux mailing list
> > > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Haifux mailing list
> > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> >
> http://hamakor.org.il/pipermail/haifux/attachments/20091102/1b31eb50/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:57:10 +0200
> > From: Tal Abir <tal.abir at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > To: Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > Cc: Haifux <haifux at haifux.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > <38b44aa0911020557r3035f7b8tbe17f1f4a0355c30 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > There is no such task.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tal.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all
> > >
> > > everything is correct:
> > > some jobs are easier on Linux
> > > knowing another OS make you a better programmer
> > > Linux is free & so are most of its tools
> > >
> > > but what I am looking for is:
> > > a description of a simple every day job
> > > that windows people will say that they will have to spent half a day
> > > programming to automate it.
> > > that widows people will admit that it is something reasonable to do.
> > > a job that can be accomplished on Linux with 10 minutes
> > > and the result should be to bring the Windows people to consider Linux
> > (at
> > > list) as their development environment
> > >
> > > Shahar
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Gabor Szabo" <szabgab at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda" <ladypine at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: "Haifux" <haifux at haifux.org>; "Shahar Dag" <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
> > >
> > >
> > > > IMHO it is not only about "better" is also that by having a broader
> > > > knowledge
> > > > you increase your value and your chances to get a job.
> > > >
> > > > Interestingly recently I more and more see companies that use Linux.
> > > > Even as the developer desktops.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
> > > > <ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hello all
> > > >>>
> > > >>> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> > > >>
> > > >> Change all files foo* to bar*. Easy with make or a shell loop, I am
> > not
> > > >> familiar with a convenient ready-made tool.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I can give you another, similar examples.
> > > >
> > > > Replace the word Java by C# in every .txt file in a directory
> > structure.
> > > > Replace the field A4 in every Excel (.xls) file in a directory
> > structure.
> > > > Sum the 3rd column of every Excel file in a directory structure.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure you can write it in Windows shell but I am quite confident
> it
> > > > is much simpler to write the above two either as a shell or as a perl
> > > > script.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Repeating tasks - History.
> > > > Many tasks we do are repeating the same command in a slightly
> different
> > > > way.
> > > >
> > > > The Linux/Unix version might need you to type in a 20-30 character
> > > > long command.
> > > > The windows version might be shorter and and might require less
> things
> > > > to remember.
> > > > It might involve clicking on 5 buttons and typing 2 strings.
> > > >
> > > > BUT, the next time you have to do the task - or a similar task - in
> > > > the windowing system you will
> > > > have to repeat the whole sequence while in a unix/linux shell where
> > > > you have a history and
> > > > strong editing capabilities you can reuse the precious solutions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In the end I am not sure the way to go is to advocate Unix/Linux. It
> > > > might be to direct them to the
> > > > command line, some high-level scripting language and maybe even
> cygwin
> > > > to put them on the
> > > > road in the direction....
> > > >
> > > > Some of them will arrive.
> > > >
> > > > Gabor
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Haifux at haifux.org
> > > > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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