[Haifux] The 10th tip?

Dave Roi davidroi at gmail.com
Sat Feb 7 09:09:29 MSK 2009

I agree with you, but then you give a double standard.
It's OK for them to have "silk gloves" when they use Windows but it's not OK
when they use Linux.

It's hard enough for them to start using a completely different operating
system they have never heard of before after spending their entire life with
I don't think they need to be pushed into even deeper water right away.

Why not make an "Advanced" section where all the command line stuff is and
if the student wants to learn more he can do that there.
I don't think we should force him to learn extra material which his
curriculum does not require.
As I see it, if the material is that important for the development of the
student it should be added to the curriculum and learned in lectures just
like all the other materials.
Then all the students would have this extra knowledge and not just the tiny
minority that actually agrees to hear and even try to use Linux.

Just my 2 cents..

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 07:50, Yossi Gil <yossi.gil at gmail.com> wrote:

> Friends: One bit of information that I did not make sufficiently clear is
> that the audience is that of students studying towards the prestigious four
> year "Bachelor of Computer Science in Software Engineering" degree - these
> are not "plain" users. Much of my motivation in driving the change was that
> I was seeing graduate students who were spending enormous time in trivial
> data processing tasks - tasks which could and should be done without a
> single line of coding - that is students who were "spoiled" with the silk
> gloves attitude. Our students will have to be thrown into the water, sooner
> or later. It is just a question of painting the pool's edge in pink ;-)
> PS. The youtube clip you give is brilliant.
> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Adir Abraham <adir at hamakor.org.il> wrote:
>> I strongly agree with Dave and Dotan. The regular user is looking for
>> simplicity and less typing. This will convince him that it's impossible to
>> use Linux from a user's point of view.
>> Adir
>> On 2/7/09, Dave Roi <davidroi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I strongly agree with Dotan here,
>>> Every single task a Linux user (user, not administrator) or even a
>>> programmer will ever want to do, he can do it using GUI alone.
>>> I believe that the perception that every Linux user needs to know how to
>>> use the command line if he wants to use Linux is an archaic perception that
>>> doesn't fit in with todays modern world and the modern Linux distributions
>>> available today.
>>> We try to show them how modern Linux is and how pretty Compiz Fusion is,
>>> and how KDE 4 is much prettier than windows 7<http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/Is-it-Windows-7-or-KDE-4-/0,139023769,339294810,00.htm>,
>>> but then we open a big ugly black screen that looks like DOS and start
>>> showing them all the l33t tricks we picked up in all the years we've been
>>> using Linux.
>>> I know using the command line is faster and easier and more powerful and
>>> everything, I use it myself all the time, but for the windows user's point
>>> of view, this is a total contradiction to the user friendliness we try so
>>> hard to preach.
>>> I know it's hard, but it's something I believe we must do if we ever want
>>> the simple windows user to start using Linux.
>>> I mean, look at the Technion. These are computer science majors we are
>>> talking about, and we can't even convince them to use it! how will we ever
>>> be able to convince the regular folks?
>>> So please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, stick to GUI apps when
>>> you teach a windows user how to use Linux.
>>> Dave.
>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 21:39, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2009/2/6 Yossi Gil <yossi.gil at gmail.com>:
>>>> > Folks, I realize the document I made was not sent, since this list
>>>> does not
>>>> > take attachments.  Here it goes.
>>>> >
>>>> This document will only scare people away from Linux. Do not include
>>>> the command line tips. It makes it appear that you have to know these
>>>> commands in order to use Linux.
>>>> --
>>>> Dotan Cohen
>>>> http://what-is-what.com
>>>> http://gibberish.co.il
>>>> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
>>>> ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه‍-و-ي
>>>> А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я
>>>> а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я
>>>> ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
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