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<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>> </span>Eclipse doesn't
belong to the "right" tools, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Why Eclipse </span>doesn't belong to the "right" tools<span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> ? My
naïve understanding is that Eclipse is Emacs of the 21-st century – it is open
source, customizable etc., similar to Emacs; in addition to being graphical. Maybe
I miss something - what are the advantages of Emacs over Eclipse ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Vadim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> haifux-bounces@haifux.org
[mailto:haifux-bounces@haifux.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eli Billauer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tzafrir Cohen<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Haifa Linux Club<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Haifux] [W2L] Call for lecturer + "Linux guru"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>OK, I think this is a good time to
express my view regarding the "Development tools" lecture. It's
purpose, as I see it, is to give the students a nice start with the
"right" tools for developing code, as needed for their exercises. If
their experience is good, they'll stay. If not, they'll soon use the
alternatives.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>If you want to give a lecture about
any other subject, as a Stay-in-Linux or mainstream lecture, by all means come
forward. But let's try to get some focus on the initial lecture.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>Correct me if I'm wrong, but a
student is not likely to go beyond a project which runs on a single platform,
having a few source files, and with no more than two or three persons involved.
Hence autotools are irrelevant, and so are version control systems. Tarballing
all sources, and sending to your partner with comments, is as much version
control as you need in these situations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>Eclipse doesn't belong to the
"right" tools, in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>I would therefore set the following
goals to a CS development tools intro lecture:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>1. Being able to compile the
sources (objects and executable), including math libraries and such, with
reasonable flags (optimization, debug info, -Wall etc) with gcc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>2. Using make properly. No crazy
tricks, just getting the actions and dependencies right.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>3. Using vi/vim/emacs (show both,
explain why both are good). I wouldn't bother showing many keystrokes, just
demonstrating and pointing at where you can get a good reference for them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>4. Use ddd for debugging. It's
worth mentioning that it's based upon gdb, and that gdb commands can be given
directly (demonstrate?) but using gdb to start with is not convincing at all.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>More is less. My $.02.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'> Eli<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style='margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>Tzafrir Cohen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 05:14:50PM +0200, boazg wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>as a side note, a seperate lecture on git for CS students, and how to use it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>with t2 would be a good idea.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Why git?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>While I think git is a handy tool, did you have in mind "developement<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>tools"?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Other tools that come in mind:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>gcc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>make<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>vi / vim<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gdb<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>autotools<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>emacs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>kdevelop<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>eclipse<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>(Just a list of tools from the top of my head, I don't intend to start a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>flame war on the exact content of a non-existing lecture)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Web: <a href="http://www.billauer.co.il">http://www.billauer.co.il</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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