[Haifux] MCTIP computer technician course

Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkelman at gmail.com
Tue Feb 22 12:55:02 MSK 2011

You may consider the CISO course at the technion



On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
<ladypine at gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer
> security: http://www.graduate.technion.ac.il/heb/Subjects/?SUB=236350
> Ask the lecturer for permission to sit in the class, write down everything
> you do not understand or have never heard of, and go and learn it yourself
> afterward.
> Orna
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:59 AM, amichay p. k. <am1chay.p.k at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> First of all, thank you everyone for the advice, I'm always happy to hear
>> other opinions.
>> I guess there is something in what you say, but I want you to pay
>> attention to my following preferences:
>> * I'm not interested in learning subjects that have no possibility for
>> practical use - "hands on" type of knowledge.
>> * I do not want to learn about programming / science / math, at least not
>> before the military service.
>> * Work that I most want is to be in information security, security
>> consultant recommended / penetration testing consultant.
>> ** To work in this profession I have to have a good knowledge of computer
>> systems, servers, networks, etc..
>> Which course do you recommend for me at this point, about eight months to
>> military service?
>> Amichay
>> 2011/2/22 Greg Pendler <pendler at gmail.com>
>>> Great manifesto. I can second every word. Studying is your and everyone
>>> else's way to succeed, but not all studying options were born equal- choose
>>> wisely. As someone interviewing people I can say that university degree
>>> makes a big difference while different courses are probably doing the
>>> opposite.
>>> Good luck
>>> Greg
>>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 15:48, Michael Vasiliev <mycroft at yandex.ru> wrote:
>>> On 02/20/2011 09:23 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote:
>>> How about starting your CS BSc instead? The open U is free for all, even
>>> if you do not have the bagrut yet, and the Technion has special programs for
>>> good students - some start at 16 or earlier.
>>> I'm replying to this reply, since I did not get the original letter (ugh,
>>> again!), and can't figure out whose mail server is to blame.
>>> Even though more than good 13 years passed since I was in that exact
>>> situation, I'd like to share some insights, based on nothing else but actual
>>> experience. Let's say you are, like I was, a young hacker in his teen years
>>> looking for a job. You have some computer, network, linux, and programming
>>> knowledge, and lacking relevant experience, you're looking into persuading
>>> the employer in your abilities. You are, like all people have a resource,
>>> time, which you want to invest wisely.
>>> First of all, if you think that a prospective employer would take a teen
>>> off the street, with or without courses and let him manage expensive
>>> equipment and business-critical data, you're so wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
>>> I cannot emphasize it any further. Unlest that employer is your close
>>> relative, the best you're looking at is laying LAN cable or assembling
>>> computers from parts, both below minimum wage (sic!). The kind of jobs you
>>> have the lowest chance to make a mistake at, from the employer's view.
>>> Delegate-able, mundane, tiring, minimal possible loss jobs. Worst part of
>>> it, these are also available right now, without any courses. Nowadays, every
>>> business is an information business, and were IT business a Zen monastery,
>>> that's the kind of jobs you were doing in your first year. Except that in
>>> Zen monastery, you get to learn later on, and here you're not. Every job you
>>> can get, you can continue doing for the rest of your life, because there's
>>> no shortage of the same dull tasks, and every single one of these jobs is
>>> both a career dead-end and a constant insult to your intelligence.
>>> Let's talk courses now. These credit-less courses are on the level of
>>> advanced OS user at best, the programming ones are on the level of novice
>>> programmer, it's nothing you don't know already. They're thriving since the
>>> days of the hi-tech bubble, and only during these crazy days they were
>>> somewhat effective. Back then, with the shortage of hands and abundance of
>>> shareholder's money, you could actually get a position doing absolutely
>>> nothing of value whatsoever. All course graduates hired back then found
>>> themselves unemployed when the bubble burst. But people still try the "easy
>>> way to high-tech salary". Isn't that the all-around marketing slogan? That's
>>> how it will be: the course will be filled with naive people who don't know
>>> two bits about computers and want to switch from another field, unrelated to
>>> exact sciences. By offering yourself as a lowest bidder in terms of
>>> knowledge you'll get, on these courses you'll be taught by (surprise!) -- a
>>> lowest-bidder lecturer, which is at best a university or college student or
>>> dropout, an unlucky jobless teacher, or, in vast majority of cases, a
>>> "graduate" of the very same courses on minimum wage. I was both the
>>> "student" and "lecturer" in similar circumstances, and I feel bad for doing
>>> both. The kind of nasty feeling if you have personal ethics for your
>>> vertebrae column and know that despite your best efforts, you're doing a
>>> half-arsed job. Pardon the wording.
>>> This budget you describe can pay tuition fees for one year of proper,
>>> regular CS university courses or a university preparatory program you could
>>> use to improve your school grades. Or you can study for a psychometric exam
>>> (best of such study is, surprisingly, not a course, but gathering course
>>> books of all your friends and sitting on your butt solving them with pencil,
>>> eraser and stopwatch in the privacy and comfort of your own home, which is
>>> another lesson I've learned the hard way). Time and budget permitting, try
>>> to get into excellent student program in your school, that will get you
>>> university courses for a credit to use later. Try to get the best grades you
>>> can while still IN SCHOOL, or improve the one you already have.
>>> To summarize: I've been on that very road, and I cannot say anything but
>>> "don't waste your time taking such courses". It's nothing but ripoff and a
>>> complete waste of your precious time. Please, I'm begging you. I
>>> wholeheartedly wish someone persuaded me otherwise back then. Make your
>>> decision on a field and work relentlessly towards getting a proper degree.
>>> If you can't figure out what field you like, but you think it's something
>>> from exact sciences, start with math(preferrably) or physics. Both can give
>>> you a solid math background, a hardcore skeleton of your knowledge, a basic
>>> science firmware for your brain you can use for switching to any field of
>>> study. Math courses in university are unbeaten in being accepted everywhere
>>> for credit towards exact sciences degree. Math is the language of science,
>>> and the only way to speak it is speaking it fluently.
>>> Army is still a part of your life, and the same principles apply. If
>>> you're stuck out of your field, don't let your brains go limp. Continue
>>> self-education on any opportunity you get. Browse university websites and
>>> borrow their programs. Read, read, read. If you can't carry a book, solve
>>> math exercises out of university books or crosswords in another language.
>>> Invent exercises for yourself. You won't regret the effort. The neurons in
>>> the brain reorganize to better solve everyday tasks, the same way muscle
>>> cells do. Exercise makes perfect. I'm not talking about a majority but
>>> literally all people complain about hardships of going back to school after
>>> an army or a study break. Continuously remind yourself about your long-term
>>> goals. Evaluate your past and present usage of available time and
>>> instruments, your progress towards these goals. Don't be afraid to go over
>>> the same things over and over. Summarize, write down and re-learn useful
>>> things you inevitably forget. Learn how to learn effectively. Every person
>>> has strengths and weaknesses in information gathering and processing, learn
>>> how to exploit yours. Read books about thinking and learning. Read books
>>> that make you think. Aggressively limit investment of your time to study
>>> proprietary technology. It's out of your long-term interest. It will be
>>> gone, abandoned by its very creators, before you could benefit fully from
>>> your investment.
>>> One thing to remember: Even the best teacher is always secondary to a
>>> student. It's like one and zero. A student studying alone is a still a good
>>> student. A teacher can as much as double his student's personal investment.
>>> A teacher without a student is nothing. Best teachers motivate and allow
>>> their students to learn on their own and they need no advertising. A word of
>>> mouth will suffice. Your own will is the cornerstone of your knowledge.
>>> Heh, what started as an innocent letter turned out to be a personal
>>> manifesto. I wish you the best of luck, perhaps I'll meet you on DEFCON one
>>> day. Make your decisions wisely. Hope the read wasn't too boring. Dixi.
>>> --
>>> MichaelV
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I consider these days to start learning computer technician course.
>>>> This course is MCTIP by Microsoft, + free Linux course.
>>>> Total of 252 + 64 hours, + Microsoft and LPIC 1 + 2 exams.
>>>> The price is 11,700, including everything.
>>>> Do you have any idea whether I should study the course?
>>>> You know what the price range for similar courses?
>>>> Any advice?
>>>> Thanks, Amichay
>>>> --
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> "the debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control"
>>>> Bruce Schneier
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>>> Linux-il at cs.huji.ac.il
>>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>> --
>>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
>>> http://ladypine.org
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>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "the debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control"
>> Bruce Schneier
> --
> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> http://ladypine.org
> _______________________________________________
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> Haifux at haifux.org
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Orr Dunkelman,
Orr.Dunkelman at gmail.com

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