[Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux

Mon Nov 2 14:09:46 MSK 2009

I don't understand.
You want a real scripting example that will work on linux but not on cygwin.
Is that correct?

Thanks,
Tal.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il> wrote:

>  Hello all
>
> mix & match is just a buzzword.
> we need a real example that shows that 10 minutes of shell scripting will
> save half a day of programming.
> (no, grep -v is not an example)
>
> as for scripts & Windows
> Windows have many scripting capabilities. It is true that we mostly ignore
> them (maybe becase they are complicated)
> 1. batch files
> 2. visual basic scrips (if you know how, you can use any dll in the system
> to do a job for you)
> 3. power shell
> 4. and of course cygwin
>
> make can be run on windows & even if you create source dependencis, you
> still have to handle the dependency on header files. The problem (almost)
> does not exist in IDE environment (which is the windows way)
>
> Valgrind is an execelt tool (and it helped me a lote) but it is relevant
> only for languages that do not have memory manegment (C, C++, ...). Java
> programmers can laugth all the way to the dedline
>
> Sorry, please think harder and come out with somthing more convincing
>
> Thanks in advanced
> Shahar Dag
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <ladypine at gmail.com>
> *To:* Vadim Eisenberg <vadim.eisenberg at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Haifux <haifux at haifux.org> ; Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2009 11:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
>
> I think the strong point is "The Unix Way", which is a mix and match of
> tools, each good at doing a specific thing, by using shell , pipe and make.
> Linux did not invent "The Unix Way", but like other FOSS, it provides more
> options for the mix and match. Indeed many Unix systems are closed source,
> and the Unix Way works there, too (better than it would work on Windows, I
> expect).
>
> A point specific to Linux and Intel/AMD is valgrind, with which I nowadays
> solve memory issues within seconds of programmer time. Solving similar
> problems before I had Linux took me weeks sometimes (for a code I was not
> familiar with, of tens of thousands of lines), and sometimes I just gave up.
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Vadim Eisenberg <
> vadim.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  I would like to present some points of a devil's advocate (some smart
>> students can raise these counterclaims during the lecture) :
>>
>> 1.       You can run batch files also on Windows (it for sure is less
>> convenient than shell scripts on Unix, but it is not impossible)
>>
>> 2.       You can use Ant instead of makefile (it is also less convenient
>> than makefile + shell scripts, but is still possible)
>>
>> 3.       You can use Perl on Windows
>>
>> 4.       UNIX remark: I guess all the tools you mention pertain to Unix
>> also, so in general you provide points for learning Unix tools, not
>> necessary Linux ones. In particular, you probably can use them on cygwin on
>> Windows.
>>
>>
>>
>> In general, my suspicion is that anything you can do in Unix, you can do
>> also in Windows,  but in a less convenient/less productive way.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope not to make anybody here angry by providing such heretic remarks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Vadim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* haifux-bounces at haifux.org [mailto:haifux-bounces at haifux.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2009 10:51 AM
>> *To:* Shahar Dag
>> *Cc:* Haifux
>> *Subject:* Re: [Haifux] advanced of programming in Linux
>>
>>
>>
>> I often see people spending approximately an hour each time, trying to
>> understand why their change was not included in the executable. The answer
>> is usually - because they forgot to insert the source into the list of
>> sources in the makefile. When I show them how to automatically create a list
>> of sources and compile them all, with the correct dependencies, the problem
>> is forever solved.
>>
>> I use a makefile to build Haifux's site automatically in two languages,
>> while compiling lists of lectures in different pages.
>>
>> I use make to properly build latex files, including the second pass
>> required for bibtex.
>>
>> I use make ,diff, head to create automatic tests (regression tests) for
>> various programs, compare them automatically with previous results, and
>> produce a report of added capabilities, lost capabilities, changes requiring
>> the attention of a professional.
>>
>> I use make and perl to create parametric sweep runs (batch runs with
>> different input parameters in each run). I specifically use here the
>> inherent quality of make, to work according to the date of targets, so that
>> if the parametric sweep was disturbed in the middle, only runs older than
>> the executable and input file are re-run.
>>
>> 2009/11/1 Shahar Dag <dag at cs.technion.ac.il>
>>
>> Hello
>>
>>
>>
>> To extent Elli's question:
>>
>> We try to convince our students that programming on Linux is easier /
>> faster relative to Windows, so they better learn how to work with Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>> We claim that using the build in shell commands and pipes we can compose a
>> solution for complex problem (almost) without programming.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point us for real life examples that prove our claims?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advanced
>>
>> Shahar Dag
>> System & Software Development Laboratory (SSDL)
>> Computer Science Department
>> Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
>> Haifa, Israel
>> Tel. 972-4-829-4880
>> Fax 972-4-829-4878
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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